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Classic Rock => Rockabilly and oldies => Topic started by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 11:36:08 am



Title: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 11:36:08 am
When it was popular, I by and large ignored hair metal.  But in recent years I've come to appreciate it for what it was/is.  Just plain fun.  It's not meant to be taken seriously, it never really was.  And in listening to some of it I've noticed similarities both lyrically and musically to the rockabilly music of the mid-late 50s.

I mean if you were to listen to the music of the late Eddie Cochran (stuff like Summertime Blues, Somethin' Else, C'Mon Everybody, 20 Flight Rock)followed by songs like Great White's Once Bitten, Georgia Satellite's Keep Your Hands To Yourself, or Poison's Talk Dirty to Me you're likely to notice similar thematic elements both musically and lyrically.  The songs all seem to deal with what teenagers (and those in their early 20s) were going through in their respective eras and the tempo and mood of the songs is generally upbeat to match the rather fun lyrics.

Def Leppard however followed a somewhat different path.  While there are some musical elements of rockabilly, being British they were more heavily influenced by the glam metal of the 70s.  Thus with them you hear a bit less Eddie Cochran and a bit more T-Rex, David Bowie, and Sweet influence in their music. 

Guns 'n' Roses were a bit more heavily influenced by the Rolling Stones (former guitarist, Izzy  Stradlin, cites Keith Richards as his main influence) and while the Stones were influenced by the rockabilly musicians that came before them-- American exports that ended up influencing their British counterparts that ended up spawning the British invasion (Eddie Cochran and Gene Vincent both come to mind)... GnR was seperated from rockabilly by a 2nd degree-- the British invasion. 

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the heavy rockabilly influence on the hair metal of the 80s?  Also, does anyone else have strong examples they could/can cite?


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 12:08:56 pm
Funny, I noticed more southern rock/country in the Georgia Satellite's "Keep Your Hands To Yourself", than rockabilly.

But then again, the lines sort of blur with the blues as you move along the spectrum.

I can't stand anything by Poison, so I honestly cannot say if I could hear anything in their music, because as soon as the first note comes on, I scream, "Make it stop!" and change the channel...

The thing about hair bands is how they seemed to mimic the path Kiss set in the 70s... a lot of cheesy rock anthem rock themes (i.e. "Rock And Roll All Nite") then come out with the sentimental ballad a la "Beth".

Def Leppard has personnel issues that shaped a lot of their music, coupled with their producer, John "Mutt" Lange who managed to morph their sound into sounding like other bands he produced in the past -AC/DC, Foreigner, et al.

Moving on with a one armed drummer, gave their sound a more electronic sound coupled with the other technological aspects (sampling, et al) made their sound a lot different -but often imitated (i.e. Bon Jovi)- from other arena bands.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 12:55:34 pm
Def Leppard has personnel issues that shaped a lot of their music, coupled with their producer, John "Mutt" Lange who managed to morph their sound into sounding like other bands he produced in the past -AC/DC, Foreigner, et al.

Moving on with a one armed drummer, gave their sound a more electronic sound coupled with the other technological aspects (sampling, et al) made their sound a lot different -but often imitated (i.e. Bon Jovi)- from other arena bands.

Their first 2 albums featured the 2 pronged guitar attack of Steve Clark & Pete Willis.  Clark's playing more raw & sloppy, Willis's approach more polished & clean.  Trouble was that Willis had a bit of an alcohol problem and was fired during the recording of Pyromania and replaced by Phil Collen.  On Adrenalize due to the death of Steve Clark, Phil Collen recorded both his own guitar parts and Clark's... In interviews he indicated it was so stressful for him that it nearly led him to quit the band.  His style was/is closer to Willis's polished & clean so trying to play more raw like Clark was not at all easy for him.  I'm guessing he was pretty thankful when Vivian Campbell was hired.

I've thoroughly enjoyed most of Def Lep's albums (except for X which was unmitigated crap from start to finish).  They're actually 2 extra generations removed from rockabilly:

Rockabilly begat British Invasion, British Invasion begat Glam Rock, Glam Rock begat Def Leppard

Whereas Guns & Roses would look more like this:

Rockabilly begat British Invasion, British Invasion begat the Stones, The Stones begat Guns 'n' Roses (and countless others)

With bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Great White, and Poison I hear a more direct:

Rockabilly begat hair metal

With bands like Metallica I hear more of a:

Rockabilly begat British Invasion, British Invasion begat Heavy Metal
Heavy Metal begat Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Rainbow, & Black Sabbath
and those bands begat Metallica


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 01:28:15 pm
So what would you catagorized glam rock?

To me, glam rock was more of the product of the 1980s, which Leppard was a part of, so the chronology is a little confusing to me.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Pegs on July 12, 2010, 01:36:36 pm
Early Bowie, Gary Glitter, New York Dolls, Slade, Sweet. It was more a look than a sound, although it can be discerned from what came before & after.

John Lennon said it best: It's just rock & roll with lipstick.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 01:39:59 pm
So what would you catagorized glam rock?

To me, glam rock was more of the product of the 1980s, which Leppard was a part of, so the chronology is a little confusing to me.

Glam Rock was largely a British product of the 70s.  I'd categorize Sweet (Ballroom Blitz, Action, & Fox On the Run, Mott the Hoople (All the Young Dudes), David Bowie (too many to list, but most of us at least have a passing familiarity with his music), and T-Rex (20th Century Boy and Bang a Gong (Get It On)) as being glam rock.

Of the hair metal bands from the 80s, Def Lep is one of the only ones I'd lump into the glam rock category as they were the receivers of that musical baton from their predecessors in the previous decade.  Many of their American counterparts had influences more in the British hard rock/heavy metal of the 70s (Led Zeppelin, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple) OR caught the music bug and needed to change their underoos after the first time they heard Van Halen's Eruption when it first came out.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: KATH on July 12, 2010, 02:23:39 pm
Okay...think about this.   I never thought of it until I was readin' this thread, BUT...:

I wonder if a LOT of the bands y'all have mentioned had decided to go from a DUDE BAND to a CHICK BAND...for whatever the reason(s) and some of 'em just got REALLY big in the MIDDLE??  We wanna rock...but with cooler hair, spandex, makeup and MORE CHICKS in the audience??...think about it.  Poison didn't have the chops to be Metallica, but they could be...Ziggy Stardust...so to speak.  AND...Rockabilly was a little too SOMETHING at the time to be taken seriously;  even though they have TONS of fans...but some people just don't like it...they were like the second string of the genre...does that make sense?





Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: KATH on July 12, 2010, 02:27:27 pm
AND I LOVED that ****...but it wasn't the clothes or the hair...it was the music at the time, believe it or not...it was Black Sabbath with some chivalry....not that those guys were any less dogs (WAYYY MORE!)...but y'all know what I mean.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Charlie on July 12, 2010, 02:29:53 pm
John Lennon said it best: It's just rock & roll with lipstick.

He also said that "all music is rehash."


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 02:32:34 pm
John Lennon said it best: It's just rock & roll with lipstick.

He also said that "all music is rehash."

And then Terry Kath sang, that he'd "have to take a pass, settle for some hash" when he couldn't find his favorite brand of tasty Spam.

Oh wait, wrong kind of "re-hash." ;)


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: KATH on July 12, 2010, 02:34:30 pm
and that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus Christ, and we know what **** they got for THAT.  heh


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 02:43:57 pm
Early Bowie, Gary Glitter, New York Dolls, Slade, Sweet. It was more a look than a sound, although it can be discerned from what came before & after.

John Lennon said it best: It's just rock & roll with lipstick.

Yeah, I thought about that -especially Bowie in his Ziggy Stardust era- but I really don't find that Def Leppard really falling into that trend (and this is where the sound comes in) because Def Leppard really wasn't about the look until the mid 80s (c. Hysteria).


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 02:51:33 pm
Yeah, I thought about that -especially Bowie in his Ziggy Stardust era- but I really don't find that Def Leppard really falling into that trend (and this is where the sound comes in) because Def Leppard really wasn't about the look until the mid 80s (c. Hysteria).

They cite Sweet and David Bowie as big influences on their sound...  So even though they didn't take on "the look" until the mid-80s, imho they'd embraced at least elements of the glam sound as early as their inception. 

They've recorded their own versions of the Sweet's Action (on Retro-Active) and Hellraiser (on YEAH!).  Also on some of the collector's versions of YEAH!, Bowie's  Space Oddity was included as a bonus track.  They also recorded Mott the Hoople's Golden Age of Rock and Roll (on YEAH!) and T-Rex's 20th Century Boy (also on YEAH!)  Since they indicated in the liner notes of YEAH! that all the songs were those that influenced them and inspired them to be musicians I'd argue that although I wouldn't necessarily consider them to be glam, they are the offspring of that genre.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: KATH on July 12, 2010, 02:53:49 pm
Early Bowie, Gary Glitter, New York Dolls, Slade, Sweet. It was more a look than a sound, although it can be discerned from what came before & after.

John Lennon said it best: It's just rock & roll with lipstick.

Yeah, I thought about that -especially Bowie in his Ziggy Stardust era- but I really don't find that Def Leppard really falling into that trend (and this is where the sound comes in) because Def Leppard really wasn't about the look until the mid 80s (c. Hysteria).

EXACTLY...thank MTV.  Joe Elliot in those ripped up jeans singin' HYSTERIA...I never even KNEW WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE.  WHO KNEW?  See???  I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT DEF LEP started OUT like TO BE KNOWN/REMEMBERED like that...but those guys CAN ROCK.  They put on an AWESOME SHOW...Do they care?  Doubtful...but I wonder if it was PART of the gameplan?  


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 03:57:13 pm
K. That's why I asked for clarification on the glam rock label... because while 70s bands used make-up (KISS, Bowie) I really associate that glam look to the Poisons, Motley Crew, Whitesnake look that was the beginning of the hair band era.

A lot of the British bands really seemed to pull their rock out of the blues sound -i.e. Led Zepplin... so I've felt that a lot of rock bands tried to imitate Zepplin more than anyone else.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 04:01:28 pm
K. That's why I asked for clarification on the glam rock label... because while 70s bands used make-up (KISS, Bowie) I really associate that glam look to the Poisons, Motley Crew, Whitesnake look that was the beginning of the hair band era.

A lot of the British bands really seemed to pull their rock out of the blues sound -i.e. Led Zepplin... so I've felt that a lot of rock bands tried to imitate Zepplin more than anyone else.

Meanwhile Led Zeppelin were imitating many of their forebears-- Stairway to Heaven was borne out of an instrumental piece, Taurus recorded by the band Spirit they also heavily borrowed from an obscure Ritchie Valens track, Oo My Head in one of their songs.  That's not necessarily a bad thing though.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Saxman on July 12, 2010, 05:33:18 pm
K. That's why I asked for clarification on the glam rock label... because while 70s bands used make-up (KISS, Bowie) I really associate that glam look to the Poisons, Motley Crew, Whitesnake look that was the beginning of the hair band era.

A lot of the British bands really seemed to pull their rock out of the blues sound -i.e. Led Zepplin... so I've felt that a lot of rock bands tried to imitate Zepplin more than anyone else.

Meanwhile Led Zeppelin were imitating many of their forebears-- Stairway to Heaven was borne out of an instrumental piece, Taurus recorded by the band Spirit they also heavily borrowed from an obscure Ritchie Valens track, Oo My Head in one of their songs.  That's not necessarily a bad thing though.

Led Zeppelin seems to be the alpha and the omega for white rock fans from their inception through today.  I never got them or what all the fuss was/is about and I say this as a lead guitar player.  My sticking point is Robert Plant's vocals: I just do NOT like his voice, at all.  But yeah, so many bands copped their style.  The band that first leaps to mind is Heart!  Ann Wilson has often cited Zeppelin and Plant as everything she wanted Heart to be and no, I can't take a lot of her voice either, although I generally enjoy female vocalists a ton.

I was on a totally different planet in high school (1974-1978).  All of the non-band kids were Zeppelin, Zeppelin, Zeppelin 24/7.  I was always more into funk bands like TOP, E,W&F, James Brown, Brother Ray, Aretha, Stevie Wonder, jazz/rock stuff like Chicago & B,S&T, Jethro Tull, Latin rock like Santana and Malo and fusion such as Weather Report and Miles Davis.  Maybe playing in interracial bands had something to do with it, maybe not.  I dunno.  But even when it came to metal stuff, I liked Deep Purple with Ritchie Blackmore on lead guitar a LOT more than Page.  To me, he blew Page out of the water and he and keyboardist Jon Lord had a real jazz improvisational touch to their soloing and trading solos back and forth. To me Zeppelin was always Plant screaming bare chested and Page messing with the violin bow, all theatrics.  *DUCKS*

I didn't (and still don't like) Lynard Skynard, either, although "Sweet Home Alabama" seems to be the theme song of my Southwest Chicago Suburban parish!  Go figure!  The Kid Rock thing "All Summer Long" is the other big thing there because it contains samples from SHA.  Yuck.  Yeah, I'm WAAYYY weird, but aren't all musicians?  LOL!  ;D


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 05:46:37 pm
Skynyrd is country rock and blues kicked up a notch... I despise "Freebird" (due to overplay), but things like "Simple Man", "On The Hunt", "Gimmie Three Steps", "Call Me The Breeze", "Ballad of Curtis Lowe"... are really the keys to Skynyrd.

But I know a lot of people who hate them too. Doesn't bother me in the least.

I went through my Zeppelin phase.... and yeah, it's because of what came out of Led Zeppelin -even down to the theatrics of what goes on stage when playing live, has set the stage for what everyone else had to do to be considered a rock band.

The funny thing, saxman, is that I loved motown and Zeppelin... country and Skynryd... Rush and Chicago.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Perplexio on July 12, 2010, 05:48:27 pm
Led Zeppelin seems to be the alpha and the omega for white rock fans from their inception through today.  I never got them or what all the fuss was/is about and I say this as a lead guitar player.  My sticking point is Robert Plant's vocals: I just do NOT like his voice, at all.  But yeah, so many bands copped their style.  The band that first leaps to mind is Heart!  Ann Wilson has often cited Zeppelin and Plant as everything she wanted Heart to be and no, I can't take a lot of her voice either, although I generally enjoy female vocalists a ton.

I've never been huge into Zeppelin.  I dig the song Kashmir and while I enjoyed Stairway to Heaven initially, when it reached the point of over-saturation I lost interest.  For female singers I believe Pat Benatar has also cited Plant as a major influence (even going so far as to say she wanted to be a female Robert Plant at one point).

Quote
I was on a totally different planet in high school (1974-1978).  All of the non-band kids were Zeppelin, Zeppelin, Zeppelin 24/7.  I was always more into funk bands like TOP, E,W&F, James Brown, Brother Ray, Aretha, Stevie Wonder, jazz/rock stuff like Chicago & B,S&T, Jethro Tull, Latin rock like Santana and Malo and fusion such as Weather Report and Miles Davis.  Maybe playing in interracial bands had something to do with it, maybe not.  I dunno.  But even when it came to metal stuff, I liked Deep Purple with Ritchie Blackmore on lead guitar a LOT more than Page.  To me, he blew Page out of the water and he and keyboardist Jon Lord had a real jazz improvisational touch to their soloing and trading solos back and forth. To me Zeppelin was always Plant screaming bare chested and Page messing with the violin bow, all theatrics.  *DUCKS*

When I was in high school, about 15 years later it seemed to be all about grunge-- Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, and Nirvana being the holy trinity of that genre.  Personally, I couldn't get into it and found myself listening more and more to the classic rock that I'd been exposed to by my older siblings (one of which whose record collection impressed me to no end when I visited him at age 12 and had finally re-discovered many of the bands that had been buried in my subconcious graduated in 1978 much like you-- incidentally I don't recall seeing any Zeppelin in his collection either).

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The Kid Rock thing "All Summer Long" is the other big thing there because it contains samples from SHA.  Yuck.  Yeah, I'm WAAYYY weird, but aren't all musicians?  LOL!  ;D

Not to mention samples of Warren Zevon's Werewolves of London.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Saxman on July 12, 2010, 05:49:56 pm
Skynyrd is country rock and blues kicked up a notch... I despise "Freebird" (due to overplay), but things like "Simple Man", "On The Hunt", "Gimmie Three Steps", "Call Me The Breeze", "Ballad of Curtis Lowe"... are really the keys to Skynyrd.

But I know a lot of people who hate them too. Doesn't bother me in the least.

I went through my Zeppelin phase.... and yeah, it's because of what came out of Led Zeppelin -even down to the theatrics of what goes on stage when playing live, has set the stage for what everyone else had to do to be considered a rock band.

The funny thing, saxman, is that I loved motown and Zeppelin... country and Skynryd... Rush and Chicago.

Oh, I respect everyone's opinion, I really do.  However, I was certainly crucified for my tastes and not liking certain bands, LOL!  

Rush: amazing musicians, vocals of Geddy Lee....well, I guess I just don't like super high tenors (see Zep).  But that's me.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Hourman on July 12, 2010, 08:14:44 pm
Try being a country fan in a high school where new wave, punk, and hard rock were all the norm...

The good thing is that our tastes mature, and we start liking more diverse music generes.

Yeah, Darrin... I was teaching in high school at the tail end of the grunge scene... rap and bands like 311, Rage Against The Machine, etc. were popular.

I remember the first time I heard Pearl Jam... that pretty convinced me that I was offically "old" because I thought it was crap.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Saxman on July 12, 2010, 09:35:13 pm
Try being a country fan in a high school where new wave, punk, and hard rock were all the norm...

The good thing is that our tastes mature, and we start liking more diverse music generes.

Yeah, Darrin... I was teaching in high school at the tail end of the grunge scene... rap and bands like 311, Rage Against The Machine, etc. were popular.

I remember the first time I heard Pearl Jam... that pretty convinced me that I was offically "old" because I thought it was crap.

I have all of Pearl Jam's studio albums courtesy of friends, etc.  I don't get all the excitement.  I think Nirvana was better and Oasis better still, although they are no grunge act.  Radiohead is ok, but again, over-hyped to me.  I don't think everything they do is golden.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Charlie on July 13, 2010, 07:08:45 am
I believe that one reason so many of us don't like much of the new rock is partly generational but I also believe it's also the type of rock that's being offered.  I know a guy in his 30s, who came of age during the time the 2 big grunge bands, Nirvana and Pearl Jam, rose to the top.  He didn't like either of them and preferred the classic stuff.  I asked him why and he said that modern rock was too depressing.  He called it "angry young man music" made by a bunch of alienated youths who really had nothing to be angry about.  He understood that all rock had some of the same rebellion, alienation, and anger he spoke of, but he also said that song for song classic rock had more party records and positive vibes than any of the current stuff does.  I think he was right on the mark.  The Beatles, Beach Boys, Chicago, even artists with a political side to them had many upbeat moments.


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: susanleky on July 13, 2010, 08:21:38 am
i like ;D


Title: Re: Similarities between Rockabilly & Hair Metal
Post by: Saxman on July 13, 2010, 08:49:40 am
I believe that one reason so many of us don't like much of the new rock is partly generational but I also believe it's also the type of rock that's being offered.  I know a guy in his 30s, who came of age during the time the 2 big grunge bands, Nirvana and Pearl Jam, rose to the top.  He didn't like either of them and preferred the classic stuff.  I asked him why and he said that modern rock was too depressing.  He called it "angry young man music" made by a bunch of alienated youths who really had nothing to be angry about.  He understood that all rock had some of the same rebellion, alienation, and anger he spoke of, but he also said that song for song classic rock had more party records and positive vibes than any of the current stuff does.  I think he was right on the mark.  The Beatles, Beach Boys, Chicago, even artists with a political side to them had many upbeat moments.

Well, we know how Cobain ended up, so that wasn't an act.  Eddie Vedder has always impressed me as someone who needs to be on psychotropic drugs or something.

In the case of Chicago, the two big singles from the V album were Dialogue - a very political (yet somewhat upbeat) tune and Saturday In The Park, a warm, sunny celebration tune, showing the versatility of that band at the time, so point well taken.